.
haven't seen a thread about music here in a while.
with the summer approaching for us northern hemisphere types, what is in your cd player?thom yorke - the eraserdeath cab for cutiedredg
Okay Here are my Cd's that are in my changer, thought I would be a hip mom, Kids told me I am not LOL , kids prefer Country and i can't stand it, and oldest Son loves that heavy metal stuff that i never even liked when I was his age. I love hip hop, rap and reggae
PussyCat Dolls
Sean Paul
Rihanna
Sister Hazel
50 Cent
Kelly clarkson
do you think a married woman should go out provocatively dressed?
some of my friends accept it some don't and one had big arguments with his wife about the issue until the time when he cunningly got her to become overweight something that spoilt her good looks.
think of it, a married woman going out wearing tight shorts showing so much leg and buttocks and a top that reveals too much breast, as if almost saying "i am going out to entice some men", should a dignified husband accept that?
As an ex married woman, I think that yes he should let his wife show off. He should be proud of how she looks in anything and even smile as men notice his wife, Knowing all the time she is going home with him. I know from my marriage one of the things that happened, I was not appreciated for who I was or how I looked. I also fell into the trap of dressing older than I was and gaining the extra weight from the depression. I am now 43 and dress younger today than I did in my late 20's to mid 30's. Husbands (boyfriends) enjoy looking at other women when they are out why not let the wife or girlfriend be the woman the other man is looking at. I also feel that this is sometimes where a marriage falls down, and eyes start looking else where on both parts, the wife sees the husband looking at the other woman and getting depressed, because he is not looking at her that way, or vise versa with the wife and the husband.
can someone please outline the rationale and scriptures used to support the idea that disfellowshipping is a loving gesture?
i am trying to understand how this behavior is justified, when in my mind in seems a simple matter; one only needs ask oneself, 'if jesus (or jehovah) were standing next to you, would jesus (or jehovah), support any shunning-type actions?
' i find it very difficult that the answer would ever be 'yes'.
McKafka99,
I too am having a hard time with this concept. I hear their reasoning, but something is missing and that is compassion, and the love. I thought we were to follow Jesus' example, and if that be the case in John 8:1-12 the Scribes and Pharisees ( hmmm sound familiar?) bring a woman caught in adultery to Jesus and they tell on her saying she was caught in adultery ( sound familar?) The law at that time was not disfellowshipping but stoning. And he tries to ignore them however they persist, and then he says "He who is without sin among you let him throw a stone at her first." (Verse 7 KJV) Then Verses 10-11 he says "Woman where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you? and she says "No one Lord" and Jesus says "Neither do I condemn you:; go and sin no more." The NWT does not have this passage with the rest of the passages in their version of the bible. It is put in as a note at the bottom of the page that verses 7:53-8:11 were not in the manuscripts Bsy.
About Family Shunning, what about the scriptures Ephesians 6:1-4 KJV 1 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord for this is right." (Talks about obeying your parents in the LORD not the WTBS Rules and Regulations, only answering to God here ) 2 "Honor ( http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary/honor) your father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise: 3 "that you may be well with you and you may live long on the earth." 4 And you, fathers do no provoke ( http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/provoke) your children to wrath, ( http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary/wrath) but bring them up in the training and admonition ( http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/admonition) of the Lord."
Another scripture I was looking at since the WTBS likes to use, 1 Cor 5:9-11 as a reference for this, how about the scripture Luke 15:1-7 (KJV) where the Pharisees and Scribes murmur that Jesus receives sinners and eats with them Jesus replies 4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?” 5 “And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.” 6 “And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them “rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!” 7 “I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just person who need no repentance.” Now my reasoning on this is not that the sheep that is lost, should wonder back on his own accord after seeking repentance but that he needs guidance back and that we should all be shepherds and not condone what someone does but help lead them spiritually back to God.
They use 1 John 2:18-19 to justify the shunning of those in the congregation. ( http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1988/4/15/article_01.htm ) However, I can’t not remotely see how this could be used for justification. It says (JKV) 18 “little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the hour.” 19 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us they were not of us; for if they had been of us they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” Now if you go and read on in the scriptures further it defines the antichrist , 20-23 20 “But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.” 21 “I have not written to you because you do no know the truth, but because you know it, and no lie is of the truth.” 22 “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.” 23 “Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” No where does it say that you should not keep contact with those that have left. I also feel that this is also referring to those that have denied God and his son all together.
I tend to follow Jesus’ example more than I do those of Paul’s letter writing or sermons, while he was appointed by God and anointed, I still feel personally that he was human just like we are today and was subject to his own opinions. He was not perfect and therefore you have to take what was said and preached and listen to the Holy Spirit for the confirmation of the Truth.
These are just my thoughts and opinions, hope I do not offend anyone
Tina ( not as broken hearted as I was when I joined this site)
let me start by saying i apologize if this has been coved on this sight.
i have read many post on many subjects, there is 5 years of post on here and with no search engine to type in what i am looking for hard to find,
okay i have received a few of the wts publications, a couple of the current watch towers (july 1, and july 15), the july awake, the publications on the trinity, blood, and what does god require of us, i also have the book what does the bible really teach?
AuldSol
Thanks for the added post.
I am feeling very stupid with all this right now. I am so trying to have the open mind, I just don't see the foundation for the orgaziation to claim they are the only chosen religion. Then, when I try to tell JW friend this he just keeps telling me that I am not going to understand, because I don't have the whole picture and that I need to sit down with someone. He knows I am on this board and I have told him many times about the very intelligent people I have run across here , and that some of those here are still active and hold positions and that the site is not just those that have left, or were disfellowshipped. I brought up the 607 date, the other day to him for two reasons, One because that is what has got many of you analyzing and thinking outside the WT, and two because there was mention of it in the July 15, watchtower under the title God's Kingdom Superior in Every Way pages 4 -7. When I starting bringing up some key points, I then again got told it is because I don't have all the pieces to the puzzle. When I asked what all the pieces were he could not tell me and told me again that I needed to contact my local KH. I think what I am finding hard here, is that some of the things that I read here as important key points for you seeing the so called "light" was not even discussed in the sermons I attended growing up. Thanks for those of you that are putting up with me on this trying to understand things better. I will say that I have read the Bible (all versions) more in the last 3 months than I have in the last 11 years. With the postings here the scriptures I use to try and read (skim because seemed too deep for the average joe) have now made more sense from the wisdom of many bright people.
let me start by saying i apologize if this has been coved on this sight.
i have read many post on many subjects, there is 5 years of post on here and with no search engine to type in what i am looking for hard to find,
okay i have received a few of the wts publications, a couple of the current watch towers (july 1, and july 15), the july awake, the publications on the trinity, blood, and what does god require of us, i also have the book what does the bible really teach?
LeoLaia
Congratulations! Your rather limited Bible study led you indirectly to a fact that years of Watchtower study would never lead you to: that the F&DS parable is based on the OT story of Joseph. Understanding this is key to understanding the parable:
Could this be becaue I was never told I could only read publications from wtbs and know that a true research is not put out by only one publication?
Thank you,
I went to both links you posted and all I have to say is WOW again, There was definitely a lot of information on both links my head is just spinning of course. I feel the same as other that have commented on your Post, you have a definite gift of analyzing scriptures and i do enjoy reading your post along with blondie's, lovelylil's and lady lee's
I just keep thinking that someone in the GB and probably started from the beginning, read the prophsey and now is trying to manipulate things so that the society looks like they are the ones being prophsied about. I remember as a teenager ( think i was in 8th grade) we had a man that came to our congregation, that called me out of the audience and prophsied that I would be involved with the hispanic community. WEll at the time I did like a mexican boy in my grade, well they moved away the following year, I was sad, Then, about 4 years later we come back in contact and well we started dating a week before i graduated highschool, in the back of my mind I wondered if this was my prophsey, Well for 26 years on and off this relationship has lasted, but figured out a long time ago, while he is hispanic he is not what the propshey was about, Then when I was in my 20's we had a missionary that was from Guatamala, He was gorgeous, single spirit filled man, immediately my mind then when back to the propshey but did not pursue that, A year later, I met this guy who was puerto rican, we started dating, and well then I ended up pregnant, We did not marry because we both knew we would not be getting married for the right reason ( wish I had listened to that voice 2 years later oh well) But when my beautiful 1/2 puerto rican daughter was born I immediately thought wow this is my prophsey. Jump ahead several years, I become a teacher, the area that I teach in is becoming more and more hispanic and this year out of 16 children in my class 4 were white, 4 black and the other 8 were hispanic, I had not thought about the propshey in many years, because I thought It was fullfilled, however at some point at the beginning of the school year, I heard the Holy Spirit say you know that prophsey, you are in the midst of it. I shared all this to say, at many times in my life knowing that i was prophised over,I came to realize I was trying to fullfill it instead of letting God fullfill it. I think about this when I read or hear that the society is the organization that was prophsied about and when I cant find backing for this in the scriptures.
let me start by saying i apologize if this has been coved on this sight.
i have read many post on many subjects, there is 5 years of post on here and with no search engine to type in what i am looking for hard to find,
okay i have received a few of the wts publications, a couple of the current watch towers (july 1, and july 15), the july awake, the publications on the trinity, blood, and what does god require of us, i also have the book what does the bible really teach?
A little or intro:
Let me start by saying I apologize if this has been coved on this sight. I have read many post on many subjects, there is 5 years of post on here and with no search engine to type in what I am looking for hard to find,
Okay I have received a few of the WTS publications, a couple of the current watch towers (July 1, and July 15), the July Awake, The publications on the Trinity, Blood, and what does God Require of US, I also have the book What Does the Bible Really Teach? And now have my own NWT. So I have been doing a lot of reading, along with all this I also have my KJV Bible out, my NIV Bible, my NAS Bible, The Greek New Testament ( and I don't read Greek but good to compare the words) and my Strongs Concordance, oh of course the internet. Need I say I have a lot at my finger tips and so I have become obsessed (which I was taught growing up is a sin) with all this, reading, searching, etc. I start out in the morning thinking I will do something else in a few and before you know it, it is 4:30 in the morning and I remind my self I do need some sleep. I am teacher and except for a trip here and there, I have a lot of time until August 1 when I have to report back.
Okay Question(s):
1.) From reading post here and a couple other sites I am to assume that JWs think they are the only way to make it through Armageddon, so question What scripture do they have to back this up?
2.) I read a lot on here about the Faithful and Discreet Slave, (before getting on here never even heard of this term) When I went to find scripture on this, I went to the strongs and found that the word discreet was only in the bible 3 times Ge 41:33, 39 and then again in Tit 2:5 So I go to look it up the index in the NWT and find they have it listed 9 times and only one of the listing I typed above are listed in their index. Question What is the faithful and discreet slave terminology about? Why is this so important?
3) I was have been reading the official watch tower sight and their beliefs, but what strikes me odd is that The things they seem to preach they go against in many ways, They talk about real love and that they are not taught to think they are better than others so question: Isn't teaching that you should not have any socializing out side the WTS other than the unfortunate business dealings, or witnessing Not love and putting your self higher than others? Then there is the disfellowshipping ( A BIG stumbling block for me, I am trying to opened minded but this screams NOOOOOOOOOO) Okay then the question comes to mind about being a believer or a non believer, ( Christian or non Christian) Again I have to ask here what scripture supports that only JW are Christians, Meaning of Christian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian And isn't implying to a NON JW that they are not a Christian because they don't belong to the organization judging, and saying you are better?
I have so many more questions, I am trying to be very opened minded with my research, the guy I am sort of dating online, thinks I am always looking for the negative of this religion, I have asked him some of these questions, he tries to answer but then my over analytical mind then comes up with another one and well he is getting frustrated, and tells me I need to call the local kingdom so then I ask if you can't answer how can they, and then he tells me they may be better prepared or better trained than he is, SO then I ask again and what would make them that way. He seems to think I am afraid of meeting which I am not, I just want to be very prepared when I do, because while I know some scriptures I could not off the top of my head just come up with ones. I realize that many of you keep telling me to run, but I am just a stubborn person that sees the challenge and takes it on.
Last night I was feeling a little overwhelmed, I was reading the July 15 watchtower and the questions from readers, I know there have been many post on this and even I posted, however I read it again and in the first paragraph it say”Can a person be disfellowshipped from he Christian congregation for engaging in uncleanness as he can be for fornication or lose conduct?" My first thought here would be why would anyone ask this question, second thought was, If someone actually wrote this question to the society Why would be more concerned with disfellowshipping from the congregation than they would be for the sin that it is and the offense to GOD? okay I keep reading, then I see where they go over and address the question using, Galatians 5:19:21, Well that is all and good, However the Whole Context should have been starting with verse 16 and going to verse 26. These verses are talking about walking and being guided with the holy sprit, I understand they used 19-21 because of the nature of the question however I don't feel you should take it out of context; it needs to be there in its entirety. The question was about uncleanness however they felt they needed to go into the definition of Fornication. They quote say "Fornication (Greek, por.nei' a) applies to illicit sexual relations outside Scriptural marriage. It includes adulty, prostitution, and sex relations between unmarried individuals as well as oral and anal sex and sexual manipulation of the genitals of an individual to whom one is not married." So I go to my 4 different and read the verses in all 4. I then take and look up the word fornication in Strongs, comparing the Greek word in Strongs with the Greek word in the Greek New testament I have. This is what I came up with. Fornication is Por.nei'a which is Harlotry (including adultery and incest) Female prostitution and Male prostitution. Well prostitution is getting paid for a service just because you have sex and not married does not make you a prostitute. Here is definition of prostitute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitute So Does Fornication really mean that two people who are not married can not have sex? The definition never mentioned marriage. And the part about oral and anal, I believe that was referring to the men and male prostitutes, I do no believe that was referring to a male and a female, plus no where did I see it mention in the definition of fornication anything at all about genital manipulation. Later on in the article they go on to say that Lose conduct is "behavior that violate all bonds of what is socially acceptable." Socially acceptable to who?
Okay maybe I am over analyzing things, I guess I need help.
Can anyone answer any of the questions listed? And your thoughts on this?
Is it no wonder that young JWs who have not gotten past the bloom of youth are so horny that they marry the first person who holds their hand? They bottle everything up and sooner or later it's got to come out. According to the WTS all you gotta do is read your bible and all's well. But different people have different sex drives. Some people are more sexual and need a sexual outlet. The WT way of dealing with sexuality just creates problems for such ones
With all the rules it is no wonder that so many may fall to being with children. (NOT RIGHT) but think about it, in their minds they are children themselves for the most part. They are told what to think then they start having adult feelings, the girls/ boys that are involved in some cases are wanting to be with those adults also I honesty don't think ALL the cases in the JW are the sickening pedofile cases, just bad judgment and wonder if there is a way the WTS could be also held accountable for creating the messed up minds the congregration gets. I have not read much about JW women abusing boys does anyone know if this has happened like the teachers we are hearing about today more and more?
Of course most churches practice the no sex before marriage but this organization seems to tell them after marriage it is not a pleasure but a duty. I growing up wondererd what all the taboo was about. AT least I waited until I was 19 until finding out, however, I decided from that point in my life when I had children I would raise with the healty mind of sex being a wonderful thing between two people and that Of course I would prefer for them to wait until marriage and follow the bible but I would not sit in judgment if they had sex before marriage, Of course i would be a hypocrit if I did becasue I got pregnant with 3 children without being married, I lost the first one. But see i some how feel the reason I did that was too because of the taboos that were set, and did not care if I got pregnant. I did reap what I sowed and was in a marriage I hated for 17 years, and I use those examples to my children. I am very open in my home with my children on this issue, However, I also don't believe in making it easy for teenagers to have access to listening to hormones and not thier heads.
an elder in my congregation asked me again yesterday, for about the tenth time, whether i have filled out my new blood card yet - is this normal?
it is getting embarrassing as i just keep saying i have not got round to it yet.
i am getting the feeling that it is being used as a sort of loyalty test.
What would be the need for ANYONE to have access to another persons private medical records?? ESPECIALLY to ones who are NOT doctors??
Sounds to me like they are wanting more control. Here in the States you have to sign a release for someone to see your records because of the HEPA laws, With my daughter turning 18 this has been very hard for us and for the doctors. I did most of the decsion making, medication orders and deciding when she would have this test or that and when. Just last week they called and did not want to talk to me at all, I explained to the girl calling that she just turned 18 and there should be a paper on file giving her dad and I persmission to know what is in her records and to still help her make some of those decisions. Just because a person turns 18 does not necessarily mean they are mentally capable of making rash decisions when it comes to major health issues. The woman ended up giving me the infomration, and I am glad she did, they were scheduling her a MRI that we new nothing about, my daughter would have freaked out, and told them to call me anyway. While the HEPA laws are here to help sometimes they hurt.
If I were a JW I Know I would not sign a realase for someone other than my immideate family to see my records, again this is none of their business. I keep trying to explain to my JW friend but he does not see it that way. I don't know what else to do to make him see he has a right to a life without fear of looking over his shoulder or losing his family. I respect his beliefs, but just trying to show him the reasons I can't believe in the WTS.
kia spectra 5 or hyundai elantra gt hatchback?
any experience with either of these cars?
they both drive great and are much more affordable than the honda and toyotas.
I love my 6 cylindar 2004 Kia Optima, Have had it a year, and you really can't beat the warranty. The only problem i have had it is like a magnet for people wanting to hit it. Only had it a month when a non english speaking gentleman that was driving a stick shift, could not drive and it rolled into the front of my car at the stop sign. 2 months later, I was backing out of a parking space and was parked next to this sign, well the sign was made out of this huge steel thing and well there was a piece sticking out you could not see and it ripped off my bumper was in tears, but friends husband fixed it, Yeah, fast forward to two more months and I am off work on Jan 2 minding my own business, at home car in parking lot at apartment complex, I go out to take a drive to my classroom to get ready for the kids return in a couple of days when I find a dent and huge hole on the driver side of my car Major tears, and even though I have insurance do not have the 500 deductable. : so it is now rusted, Then 2 months later again, was sitting at McDonalds drive through waiting on food when the person behind me just hits my car. Not sure what it is about this car, the old one i told people to hit it and never got a ding, UGH LOL
Can I vote Al Gore for president? of the watchtower society?...........
Better President of that than our Country, If they think it is a mess now just think what I it could have been.
Sorry just my personal biased opinion.
